First 125

On May 14, 11:26 am, Bill Shatzer <bshatze....TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> > Of course, I have read somewhere that the Rebel 250
> > outsells the Nighthawk 250 by something like 10:1
> > in the U.S., which I guess tells Honda all they need to
> > know about U.S. tastes (or lack thereof) in bikes.  Sigh.
>
> Well, there is, of course, the little detail that the Nighthawk goes for
> $500 more than the Rebel.
>
> I can't quite figure out -why- the Rebel is so much cheaper but the
> rather substantial price difference undoubtedly convinces a lot of first
> time riders to go with the Rebel and bank the difference or put it into
> better riding gear.
>
> > I have no problem with those who truly prefer the cruiser
> > style - hey, it's their choice, not mine - but fer Chrissakes,
> > in a TWO HUNDRED FIFTY CC MOTORCYCLE???
>
> There's a lot to say for the 250s, especially for the beginning rider -
> they're light, maneuverable, simple to maintain, get great gas mileage
> and, at least with the Hondas, pretty much bullet proof mechanically.
>
> They're not very happy at over 60 mph and are definitely not freeway
> cruisers - but not everyone wants or needs to cruise the interstates.
>
> Cheers,

But the Ninja 250 is a vastly superior bike, water cooled, can go damn
near 100mph, disk brakes and a proper seating position. At
essentially the same price.

The Hondas just aren't good value for the money.
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"Bob Myers" <nospamplease RemoveThis @address.invalid> wrote

> Ditto. You apparently don't think opinions that
> disagree with yours should be spoken, huh?
>

No, I think they should be expressed in a manner that is not demeaning or
derogatory to the people who hold a different opinion. Apparently you don't
agree with that either.

It is absolutely your right to be as nasty and negative as you want.
Just don't expect not to be called on it from time to time.
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"Who Me?" <hitchhiker DeleteThis @dont.panic> wrote in message
news:NmEWj.1821$r82.303@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> No, I think they should be expressed in a manner that is not demeaning or
> derogatory to the people who hold a different opinion. Apparently you
> don't agree with that either.
>
> It is absolutely your right to be as nasty and negative as you want.
> Just don't expect not to be called on it from time to time.

Shrug. I put "only my opinion" disclaimers all over this
right from the start; if you think anything therein was
"nasty and negative," especially by the norms around
HERE, all I can say is that you appear to be extraordinarily
thin-skinned, at least on this topic.

Bob M.
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"Bill Shatzer" <bshatzerNO.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_IednUr7fsUtvbbVnZ2dnUVZ_gGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> I have no problem with those who truly prefer the cruiser
>> style - hey, it's their choice, not mine - but fer Chrissakes,
>> in a TWO HUNDRED FIFTY CC MOTORCYCLE???
>
> There's a lot to say for the 250s, especially for the beginning rider -
> they're light, maneuverable, simple to maintain, get great gas mileage
> and, at least with the Hondas, pretty much bullet proof mechanically.

Sure - but to clarify, I wasn't saying anything re
250s in general, just the choice of the cruiser style
over a standard *at that size*. I can't figure out
Honda's pricing on that pair, either.

Bob M.
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"BryanUT" <nestle12.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:924943f3-93ae-4ed7-9e8e-dcb2451a6249@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

>> There's a lot to say for the 250s, especially for the beginning rider -
>> they're light, maneuverable, simple to maintain, get great gas mileage
>> and, at least with the Hondas, pretty much bullet proof mechanically.
>>
>> They're not very happy at over 60 mph and are definitely not freeway
>> cruisers - but not everyone wants or needs to cruise the interstates.
>
> But the Ninja 250 is a vastly superior bike, water cooled, can go damn
> near 100mph, disk brakes and a proper seating position. At
> essentially the same price.

Agreed on all points - although I would have to question
putting all that nice shiny plastic on what has to be seen,
in this market, as a beginner's bike. But then I personally
would also question a beginner who was buying "new"
in the first place.

What would be really nice would be to have more choices
- what do we have now, essentially...uhhh...zero? - in the
250-to-600 cc range. Something that wouldn't be
an unreasonable choice for the complete newbie, and yet
could also get out of its own way enough to not be
ridiculous on the highway. (Yeah, the Ninja counts, I suppose,
but name another three...) But then, there have already been
comments here about the dearth of choices in that range in
the U.S. market.

Bob M.
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Bob Myers wrote:


> What would be really nice would be to have more choices
> - what do we have now, essentially...uhhh...zero? - in the
> 250-to-600 cc range. Something that wouldn't be
> an unreasonable choice for the complete newbie, and yet
> could also get out of its own way enough to not be
> ridiculous on the highway. (Yeah, the Ninja counts, I suppose,
> but name another three...) But then, there have already been
> comments here about the dearth of choices in that range in
> the U.S. market.

Well, off the top of my head, there's the Buell Blast, the two Kawasaki
500s (Ninja and Vulcan) and the Suzuki GS500 in the 500 cc range.
There's likely a couple others in the dual sport category though I'm not
very familiar with those bikes. But that's four, in any case.

What I lament is the total lapse of the Standard motorcycle - there's
the 250 Nighthawk and the Triumph Bonneville and a few obsolescent (and
poorly supported) designs like the Ural and Royal Enfield and that's
pretty much it.

The Standard was a good design - not the best at anything but competent
in everything. Looking cool has apparently won out over competence.
 >> Stay informed about: First 125 

On May 14, 1:48 pm, Bill Shatzer <bshatze... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
> What I lament is the total lapse of the Standard motorcycle - there's
> the 250 Nighthawk and the Triumph Bonneville and a few obsolescent (and
> poorly supported) designs like the Ural and Royal Enfield and that's
> pretty much it.
>

The Ducati GT1000 is a very cool modern standard.
 >> Stay informed about: First 125 

On Wed, 14 May 2008 12:48:14 -0700, Bill Shatzer
<bshatzerNO.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

>Bob Myers wrote:
>
>
>> What would be really nice would be to have more choices
>> - what do we have now, essentially...uhhh...zero? - in the
>> 250-to-600 cc range. Something that wouldn't be
>> an unreasonable choice for the complete newbie, and yet
>> could also get out of its own way enough to not be
>> ridiculous on the highway. (Yeah, the Ninja counts, I suppose,
>> but name another three...) But then, there have already been
>> comments here about the dearth of choices in that range in
>> the U.S. market.
>
>Well, off the top of my head, there's the Buell Blast, the two Kawasaki
>500s (Ninja and Vulcan) and the Suzuki GS500 in the 500 cc range.

Don't put the Blast in that group. It's not up to the task.
34 HP, 16 seconds in the 1/4 mile, 7 seconds 0 - 60, etc, as opposed
to ~ 60 HP for the others, ~ 13 seconds in the 1/4, < 4 seconds 0 -
60, etc.

>The Standard was a good design - not the best at anything but competent
>in everything. Looking cool has apparently won out over competence.

And this is different from the rest of life ....HOW ????



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Bob Myers wrote:
>
>Sure - but to clarify, I wasn't saying anything re
>250s in general, just the choice of the cruiser style
>over a standard *at that size*. I can't figure out
>Honda's pricing on that pair, either.
>

I suppose style is in the eye of the beholder. Being a more practical
kind of guy, I have to wonder why someone would pay more for the Nighthawk,
which is mechanical similar to the Rebel, with the exception of having a
front drum brake instead of a disc. Also the factory warranty on the more
expensive Nighthawk is only 6 months, compared to 1 year on the Rebel. It's
almost as though Honda is trying to discourage people from buying the
Nighthawk.

To my mind, both of the Hondas are overpriced and outclassed when compared
with the performance and utility of the Kaw 250. I think it would be great
if Kaw offered a version of the 250 without all of the plastic. They could
make it even more competitive, pricewise.

John

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David White <wlightning RemoveThis @att.net> wrote:

> Being an MSF RiderCoach, I get to ride all these small bikes every weekend
> on the range. Eliminators, GZ250's, Virago's, and Nighthawks. My favorite is
> the Rebal 250. Lots of fun for ridin' the range. Would I take one out on the
> open road?? Not on your/my life.

Wimp. Small bikes can be *lots* of fun, in that you can hammer the tits
off them and have a real giggle.

Hey! Look! Seventy on the clock!

I once rode a 12bhp 125 from London to the Bol d'Or at Circuit Paul
Ricard in the South of France. Once across the Channel, that was nearly
650 miles through France. That took me 16 hours non-stop, leaving the
port of Calais at 10pm and rolling into the circuit at 2pm the next
afternoon.

I'm not saying I'd cheerfully do it again, but there is a perverse
pleasure to be had from nailing a small motorcycle for miles and miles.

(But more power is better)


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The bells, the bells.....
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On Thu, 15 May 2008 00:00:43 +0100, totallydeadmailbox.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk
(The Older Gentleman) wrote:

>David White <wlightning.RemoveThis@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Being an MSF RiderCoach, I get to ride all these small bikes every weekend
>> on the range. Eliminators, GZ250's, Virago's, and Nighthawks. My favorite is
>> the Rebal 250. Lots of fun for ridin' the range. Would I take one out on the
>> open road?? Not on your/my life.
>
>Wimp. Small bikes can be *lots* of fun, in that you can hammer the tits
>off them and have a real giggle.

Hammer the tits off them. What a quaint euphemism. One can only wonder
at its origin.

>Hey! Look! Seventy on the clock!
>
>I once rode a 12bhp 125 from London to the Bol d'Or at Circuit Paul
>Ricard in the South of France. Once across the Channel, that was nearly
>650 miles through France. That took me 16 hours non-stop, leaving the
>port of Calais at 10pm and rolling into the circuit at 2pm the next
>afternoon.
>
>I'm not saying I'd cheerfully do it again, but there is a perverse
>pleasure to be had from nailing a small motorcycle for miles and miles.

You're a masochistic dwarf with a severed spinal cord at L4.

What do I win?

--
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Bill Shatzer wrote:

>What I lament is the total lapse of the Standard motorcycle - there's
>the 250 Nighthawk and the Triumph Bonneville and a few obsolescent (and
>poorly supported) designs like the Ural and Royal Enfield and that's
>pretty much it.

You're cracked. There's many standards. My SV650 being one example.
 >> Stay informed about: First 125 

dizzy <dizzy.DeleteThis@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Bill Shatzer wrote:
>
> >What I lament is the total lapse of the Standard motorcycle - there's
> >the 250 Nighthawk and the Triumph Bonneville and a few obsolescent (and
> >poorly supported) designs like the Ural and Royal Enfield and that's
> >pretty much it.
>
> You're cracked. There's many standards. My SV650 being one example.

And the Bandit series being another. And the Yamaha XJR1300 another
(actually, I don't think you get that in the US).


--
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GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60
The bells, the bells.....
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