04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R

What type of riding do you do? Woods, Moto? Adventure?

<asahitoro DeleteThis @nospam.com> wrote in message
news:j9EEb.99998$b01.2150346@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
 > I've been doing a lot of reading on the above machines and am looking
 > for more personal opinions and advice. Both of these bikes seem to fit
 > what I'm looking for well. At first I wasn't considering a 4 stroke but
 > it sounds like the technology has changed a lot in recent years to
 > satisfy my thirst for speed. One thing I'm concerned about though is the
 > reliabilty of the 450R. I've read reports that there have been some
 > valve failures. For a casual/intermediate, weekend rider, will the 450
 > need much more maintenence over the 250? Will Honda eventually make this
 > engine as close to bullet proof as the XR's and should I wait a
 > generation or two to go with the 450? On either machine, I'll definitely
 > be doing the basic stuff(air filter, oil, tighten chain/bolts, etc.)
 > after long rides. Also, I'll probably have the top end rebuilt and have
 > the shop go everything else once a season.
 >
 > I'm getting up there in years now and don't have the time to turn a
 > wrench like I did in my younger years so I want the bike which will give
 > me the least amount of hassles and keep me going fast and happy.
 >
 > Thanks for any input,
 >
 > Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

In article <HqHEb.88288$8y1.292199@attbi_s52>,
"Germy McWrath" <spamisporkshoulderandham.RemoveThis@hogbutt.com> wrote:

 > What type of riding do you do? Woods, Moto? Adventure?

I'll be riding in central/west Florida, mostly at Croom in Brooksville:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atvflorida.com/croom.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.atvflorida.com/croom.shtml</a>

I don't plan on doing any tight woods type riding and may do some ole
fart racing at Dade City(MX track) every once in a while as well. Both
bikes seem to fit my needs and should keep me very happy. I've ridden
many of 250's but I'm curious about the new 450 4 stroke. The valve
issues that I have read about on various boards concern me though.

Scott



 > <asahitoro.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
 > news:j9EEb.99998$b01.2150346@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
  > > I've been doing a lot of reading on the above machines and am looking
  > > for more personal opinions and advice. Both of these bikes seem to fit
  > > what I'm looking for well. At first I wasn't considering a 4 stroke but
  > > it sounds like the technology has changed a lot in recent years to
  > > satisfy my thirst for speed. One thing I'm concerned about though is the
  > > reliabilty of the 450R. I've read reports that there have been some
  > > valve failures. For a casual/intermediate, weekend rider, will the 450
  > > need much more maintenence over the 250? Will Honda eventually make this
  > > engine as close to bullet proof as the XR's and should I wait a
  > > generation or two to go with the 450? On either machine, I'll definitely
  > > be doing the basic stuff(air filter, oil, tighten chain/bolts, etc.)
  > > after long rides. Also, I'll probably have the top end rebuilt and have
  > > the shop go everything else once a season.
  > >
  > > I'm getting up there in years now and don't have the time to turn a
  > > wrench like I did in my younger years so I want the bike which will give
  > > me the least amount of hassles and keep me going fast and happy.
  > >
  > > Thanks for any input,
  > >
  > > Scott
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

In article <3af1170b.0312191050.3c2dc794.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>,
pplassm.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (Pete P.) wrote:

 > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be low
 > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
 >
 > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I thought
 > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
 >
 > Pete P.
 >

Thanks for your input Pete,

I realize it will never be 'XR bulletproof'. That may be the ultimate
bike if they could do that. Just keep filling it with gas, change the
oil every once in a while and ride it like a maniac :^).

Here's where I have been reading on some of the valve issues:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/UBB29" target="_blank">http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/UBB29</a>

Not everyone is having the problem. It seems that it may be related to
slower type riding where the engine may heat up too much. Guys riding
balls to the wall all the time and doing frequent oil changes are not
having the problem or having it less often.

Scott


 > asahitoro.DeleteThis@nospam.com wrote in message
 > news:<j9EEb.99998$b01.2150346@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
  > > I've been doing a lot of reading on the above machines and am looking
  > > for more personal opinions and advice. Both of these bikes seem to fit
  > > what I'm looking for well. At first I wasn't considering a 4 stroke but
  > > it sounds like the technology has changed a lot in recent years to
  > > satisfy my thirst for speed. One thing I'm concerned about though is the
  > > reliabilty of the 450R. I've read reports that there have been some
  > > valve failures. For a casual/intermediate, weekend rider, will the 450
  > > need much more maintenence over the 250? Will Honda eventually make this
  > > engine as close to bullet proof as the XR's and should I wait a
  > > generation or two to go with the 450? On either machine, I'll definitely
  > > be doing the basic stuff(air filter, oil, tighten chain/bolts, etc.)
  > > after long rides. Also, I'll probably have the top end rebuilt and have
  > > the shop go everything else once a season.
  > >
  > > I'm getting up there in years now and don't have the time to turn a
  > > wrench like I did in my younger years so I want the bike which will give
  > > me the least amount of hassles and keep me going fast and happy.
  > >
  > > Thanks for any input,
  > >
  > > Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the intake
side.


"Pete P." <pplassm DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3af1170b.0312191050.3c2dc794@posting.google.com...
 > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be low
 > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
 >
 > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I thought
 > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
 >
 > Pete P.
 >
 >
 > asahitoro DeleteThis @nospam.com wrote in message
news:<j9EEb.99998$b01.2150346@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
  > > I've been doing a lot of reading on the above machines and am looking
  > > for more personal opinions and advice. Both of these bikes seem to fit
  > > what I'm looking for well. At first I wasn't considering a 4 stroke but
  > > it sounds like the technology has changed a lot in recent years to
  > > satisfy my thirst for speed. One thing I'm concerned about though is the
  > > reliabilty of the 450R. I've read reports that there have been some
  > > valve failures. For a casual/intermediate, weekend rider, will the 450
  > > need much more maintenence over the 250? Will Honda eventually make this
  > > engine as close to bullet proof as the XR's and should I wait a
  > > generation or two to go with the 450? On either machine, I'll definitely
  > > be doing the basic stuff(air filter, oil, tighten chain/bolts, etc.)
  > > after long rides. Also, I'll probably have the top end rebuilt and have
  > > the shop go everything else once a season.
  > >
  > > I'm getting up there in years now and don't have the time to turn a
  > > wrench like I did in my younger years so I want the bike which will give
  > > me the least amount of hassles and keep me going fast and happy.
  > >
  > > Thanks for any input,
  > >
  > > Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

"Andy Mullins" <egnoramoose.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> sez:

 > I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the intake
 > side.
 >
 >
 > cuz "Pete P." <pplassm.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> sez:
  > > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be low
  > > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
  > >
  > > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I thought
  > > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
<snip>

Yup, the titanium intake valves will recede into the seat from wear. When
they start to go, they go fast & hard starting is the outside telltale while
a closing gap at the tappet is the inside telltale. Mine has been lightly
used so I haven't had the problem yet, but other CRF riders claim its just a
matter of time. For trail riders, one heavy season of riding will do it.

If you want to "XR reliability" the CRF, put in the Kibblewhite SS valve
kit:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/" target="_blank">http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</a>

* Kibblewhite doesn't do retail sales, but they can vector you off to a
suitable distributor.

Good aspiratin' to ya,
VLJ
--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

In article <qIJEb.47178$vn.111598@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
"vlj" <v DeleteThis @l.j> wrote:

 > "Andy Mullins" <egnoramoose DeleteThis @hotmail.com> sez:
 >
  > > I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the intake
  > > side.
  > >
  > >
  > > cuz "Pete P." <pplassm DeleteThis @yahoo.com> sez:
   > > > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be low
   > > > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
   > > >
   > > > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I thought
   > > > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
 > <snip>
 >
 > Yup, the titanium intake valves will recede into the seat from wear. When
 > they start to go, they go fast & hard starting is the outside telltale while
 > a closing gap at the tappet is the inside telltale. Mine has been lightly
 > used so I haven't had the problem yet, but other CRF riders claim its just a
 > matter of time. For trail riders, one heavy season of riding will do it.
 >
 > If you want to "XR reliability" the CRF, put in the Kibblewhite SS valve
 > kit:
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font" target="_blank">http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font</a>>
 >
 > * Kibblewhite doesn't do retail sales, but they can vector you off to a
 > suitable distributor.
 >
 > Good aspiratin' to ya,
 > VLJ
 > --
 >
 >

Cool VLJ,

Thanks for the tip on the valves. Do the Kibblewhites really increase
the reliabilty that much? I'll stay on top of oil changes, air filter
cleanings and a valve adjustment at least once a season as well. How
often does the top end need rebuilt in the 450's? I'd really like to get
the 450 and that bike with 'XR type' or close reliabilty is a no
brainer. I'm thinking Honda should have it ironed out themselves soon as
well. That smooth plush Honda riding frame/suspension and a super fast
reliable 4 stroke. *drool**

Thanks again,

Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

Adjusting valves on a CRF once a year isn't enough if you ride it much. I
check and adjust mine about every 2 months, every month once the valves
start wearing quick. I hope your not saying you will change the oil and
clean the air filter once a season as well. The CRF has a small oil capacity
and should be changed every 2 rides and change the oil filter every other
oil change. The most I will use an air filter is 2 rides, usually I use a
fresh one every ride. The Kibblewhites don't wear out like the OEM titanium
do. The Kibblewhites are stainless steel and are heavier. In theory, they
reduce performance... in reality most of us won't notice the difference. I
rebuild my top end once a year. Truthfully, a ring job would be sufficient.
If you want a 450 and a bike with XR reliability you want two different
bikes. You really need to decide which you want; CRF speed and performance
or XR anvil like reliability.


<asahitoro RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote in message
news:AMKEb.100934$b01.2184460@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
 > In article <qIJEb.47178$vn.111598@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
 > "vlj" <v RemoveThis @l.j> wrote:
 >
  > > "Andy Mullins" <egnoramoose RemoveThis @hotmail.com> sez:
  > >
   > > > I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the
intake
   > > > side.
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > cuz "Pete P." <pplassm RemoveThis @yahoo.com> sez:
   > > > > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be
low
   > > > > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
   > > > >
   > > > > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I
thought
   > > > > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
  > > <snip>
  > >
  > > Yup, the titanium intake valves will recede into the seat from wear.
When
  > > they start to go, they go fast & hard starting is the outside telltale
while
  > > a closing gap at the tappet is the inside telltale. Mine has been
lightly
  > > used so I haven't had the problem yet, but other CRF riders claim its
just a
  > > matter of time. For trail riders, one heavy season of riding will do
it.
  > >
  > > If you want to "XR reliability" the CRF, put in the Kibblewhite SS valve
  > > kit:
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font" target="_blank">http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font</a>>
  > >
  > > * Kibblewhite doesn't do retail sales, but they can vector you off to a
  > > suitable distributor.
  > >
  > > Good aspiratin' to ya,
  > > VLJ
  > > --
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Cool VLJ,
 >
 > Thanks for the tip on the valves. Do the Kibblewhites really increase
 > the reliabilty that much? I'll stay on top of oil changes, air filter
 > cleanings and a valve adjustment at least once a season as well. How
 > often does the top end need rebuilt in the 450's? I'd really like to get
 > the 450 and that bike with 'XR type' or close reliabilty is a no
 > brainer. I'm thinking Honda should have it ironed out themselves soon as
 > well. That smooth plush Honda riding frame/suspension and a super fast
 > reliable 4 stroke. *drool**
 >
 > Thanks again,
 >
 > Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

Just buy a CR500, no top end to rebuild, bullet proof engine, don't overheat
while idling, don't chew out gearboxes, don't fall to bits in 2 years and
have more power than one of these girlie 4 strokes. (stir stir) And still
carry a legendry status.

Tom Kennedy
Australia

<asahitoro.RemoveThis@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:AMKEb.100934$b01.2184460@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
 > In article <qIJEb.47178$vn.111598@sea-read.news.verio.net>,
 > "vlj" <v.RemoveThis@l.j> wrote:
 >
  > > "Andy Mullins" <egnoramoose.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> sez:
  > >
   > > > I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the
intake
   > > > side.
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > cuz "Pete P." <pplassm.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> sez:
   > > > > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be
low
   > > > > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
   > > > >
   > > > > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I
thought
   > > > > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
  > > <snip>
  > >
  > > Yup, the titanium intake valves will recede into the seat from wear.
When
  > > they start to go, they go fast & hard starting is the outside telltale
while
  > > a closing gap at the tappet is the inside telltale. Mine has been
lightly
  > > used so I haven't had the problem yet, but other CRF riders claim its
just a
  > > matter of time. For trail riders, one heavy season of riding will do
it.
  > >
  > > If you want to "XR reliability" the CRF, put in the Kibblewhite SS valve
  > > kit:
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font" target="_blank">http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/</font</a>>
  > >
  > > * Kibblewhite doesn't do retail sales, but they can vector you off to a
  > > suitable distributor.
  > >
  > > Good aspiratin' to ya,
  > > VLJ
  > > --
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Cool VLJ,
 >
 > Thanks for the tip on the valves. Do the Kibblewhites really increase
 > the reliabilty that much? I'll stay on top of oil changes, air filter
 > cleanings and a valve adjustment at least once a season as well. How
 > often does the top end need rebuilt in the 450's? I'd really like to get
 > the 450 and that bike with 'XR type' or close reliabilty is a no
 > brainer. I'm thinking Honda should have it ironed out themselves soon as
 > well. That smooth plush Honda riding frame/suspension and a super fast
 > reliable 4 stroke. *drool**
 >
 > Thanks again,
 >
 > Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

 >Just buy a CR500, no top end to rebuild, bullet proof engine, don't overheat
 >while idling, don't chew out gearboxes, don't fall to bits in 2 years and
 >have more power than one of these girlie 4 strokes. (stir stir) And still
 >carry a legendry status.
 >

Guess what? Your CR-500 I mean your old dino CR-500 is a PUSS!
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp" target="_blank">http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp</a>
Hope you got some BNG with that old fossil.
Doug
Pacific NorthWET/Oregon
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html" target="_blank">http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

 >On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:03:18 GMT, "vlj" <v DeleteThis @l.j> wrote:

 >"Andy Mullins" <egnoramoose DeleteThis @hotmail.com> sez:
 >
  >> I've had valve issues. I'm about to do my second valve job on the intake
  >> side.
  >>
  >>
  >> cuz "Pete P." <pplassm DeleteThis @yahoo.com> sez:
   >> > It will never be as bulletproof as an XR. XR's are designed to be low
   >> > level trail machines, and the CRF is a racing bike.
   >> >
   >> > I have not heard of any valve failures on the CRF's,though. I thought
   >> > they were as bulletproof as Honda could make a race bike.
 ><snip>
 >
 >Yup, the titanium intake valves will recede into the seat from wear. When
 >they start to go, they go fast & hard starting is the outside telltale while
 >a closing gap at the tappet is the inside telltale. Mine has been lightly
 >used so I haven't had the problem yet, but other CRF riders claim its just a
 >matter of time. For trail riders, one heavy season of riding will do it.
 >
 >If you want to "XR reliability" the CRF, put in the Kibblewhite SS valve
 >kit:
 >
 >http://www.off-road.com/dirtbike/projects/crf450/kibblewhite/
 >
 >* Kibblewhite doesn't do retail sales, but they can vector you off to a
 >suitable distributor.
 >
 >Good aspiratin' to ya,
 >VLJ


Most of my customers have been ordering the Kibblewhite "diamond"
valves.


Jim
Ole Man in the Trees
'99 Gas Gas EC274
Team LAGNAF
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.smackovermotorsports.com" target="_blank">www.smackovermotorsports.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

Yes,

I wouldn't mind having a go on that beast.

Regards,

Tom Kennedy
Australia

"MXOldtimer" <mxoldtimer.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031220012401.19889.00000658@mb-m01.aol.com...
  > >Just buy a CR500, no top end to rebuild, bullet proof engine, don't
overheat
  > >while idling, don't chew out gearboxes, don't fall to bits in 2 years and
  > >have more power than one of these girlie 4 strokes. (stir stir) And still
  > >carry a legendry status.
  > >
 >
 > Guess what? Your CR-500 I mean your old dino CR-500 is a PUSS!
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp</font" target="_blank">http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp</font</a>>
 > Hope you got some BNG with that old fossil.
 > Doug
 > Pacific NorthWET/Oregon
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html</font" target="_blank">http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

Hey !
Wasnt ATK dead ?!?!? Bloddy thing that they done... a 700cc 2S !
You need big cojones (thats colhões in Portuguese...no need to thank me
for improving foreign cultures knowledge in this NG to ride that
beast !!!

AJSB
'03 GasGas EC300...
....Political Correct trends can say whatever they want,
but 2S will be allways THE dirt bikes !

MXOldtimer wrote:
 >
  > >Just buy a CR500, no top end to rebuild, bullet proof engine, don't overheat
  > >while idling, don't chew out gearboxes, don't fall to bits in 2 years and
  > >have more power than one of these girlie 4 strokes. (stir stir) And still
  > >carry a legendry status.
  > >
 >
 > Guess what? Your CR-500 I mean your old dino CR-500 is a PUSS!
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp</font" target="_blank">http://www.atkusa.com/bikes/2004Models/700Itimidator.asp</font</a>>
 > Hope you got some BNG with that old fossil.
 > Doug
 > Pacific NorthWET/Oregon
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html</font" target="_blank">http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html</font</a>><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R 

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:58:31 +0000, "Amandio J.S. Bacalhau"
<xxx.TakeThisOut@xxx.com> wrote:

 >Hey !
 >Wasnt ATK dead ?!?!? Bloddy thing that they done... a 700cc 2S !
 >You need big cojones (thats colhões in Portuguese...no need to thank me
 >for improving foreign cultures knowledge in this NG to ride that
 >beast !!!

The 700 is supposed to be fairly easy to ride. The beast is the 620.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 04 CR250R vs 04 CRF450R